| The City of PCB Posted by grahame at 07:49, 10th September 2018 |     |
Heavily edited to extract from correspondence received
As I understand things, Poole, Christchurch and Bournemouth (PCB) will become a Unified Authority and one of its first acts will be to apply to become a city. This, it will give it more powers, more than perhaps a London Local Authority.
I was told we will be getting a tram system! Do your contacts have any views there? NR has told me that it’s better to go for a guided busway (Edinburgh Council almost went bust apparently).
I was told we will be getting a tram system! Do your contacts have any views there? NR has told me that it’s better to go for a guided busway (Edinburgh Council almost went bust apparently).
Any confirmations, denials, smoke without fire thoughts, etc??
| Re: The City of PCB Posted by Lee at 08:11, 10th September 2018 | |
It's true - https://futuredorset.co.uk/
That insight from the ever forward-thinking Network Rail wouldn't surprise me either.
| Re: The City of PCB Posted by grahame at 08:25, 10th September 2018 | |
It's true - https://futuredorset.co.uk/
That insight from the ever forward-thinking Network Rail wouldn't surprise me either.
That insight from the ever forward-thinking Network Rail wouldn't surprise me either.
In which case I will move this from "Rumour Mill" (where I started the thread) to another (public) board.
| Re: The City of PCB Posted by Lee at 11:13, 10th September 2018 | |
On a potential tram system, there has been a consistent official line for some time now that, due to funding constraints, it would be no more than a long term aspiration (ie 2026 and beyond).
From the Bournemouth, Poole and Dorset Local Transport Plan 3 (Pages 75 & 76) :
: Bournemouth, Poole and Dorset Local Transport Plan 3
9.6 Rapid transit
9.6.1 Light rapid transit would represent the most significant step change in public transport provision in the LTP area. Initial feasibility and appraisal work has established that a Dorset Area Rapid Transit System, operating from Christchurch to Hamworthy, is broadly feasible and would attract significant patronage. The scheme would operate tram-trains on the heavy rail network, with on-street links in Bournemouth Town Centre providing a frequent, reliable service between the main urban centres of the conurbation. Integration of rapid transit with the Quality Bus Corridors and key walking / cycling routes would help to create the centrepiece of a modern, sustainable transport system and an attraction for visitors, providing wider economic benefits. Due to expected funding levels, and that this concept is still in its infancy as far as the UK is concerned, it is recognised that rapid transit is unlikely to be implemented until after 2026. However, it represents a longer term aspiration for the LTP and further feasibility work and the development of specific scheme proposals will be undertaken.
POLICY LTP H-6
The authorities will promote the future development of rapid transit and develop proposals during the LTP3 period for a future Dorset Area Rapid Transit System operating in the South East Dorset conurbation.
9.6.1 Light rapid transit would represent the most significant step change in public transport provision in the LTP area. Initial feasibility and appraisal work has established that a Dorset Area Rapid Transit System, operating from Christchurch to Hamworthy, is broadly feasible and would attract significant patronage. The scheme would operate tram-trains on the heavy rail network, with on-street links in Bournemouth Town Centre providing a frequent, reliable service between the main urban centres of the conurbation. Integration of rapid transit with the Quality Bus Corridors and key walking / cycling routes would help to create the centrepiece of a modern, sustainable transport system and an attraction for visitors, providing wider economic benefits. Due to expected funding levels, and that this concept is still in its infancy as far as the UK is concerned, it is recognised that rapid transit is unlikely to be implemented until after 2026. However, it represents a longer term aspiration for the LTP and further feasibility work and the development of specific scheme proposals will be undertaken.
POLICY LTP H-6
The authorities will promote the future development of rapid transit and develop proposals during the LTP3 period for a future Dorset Area Rapid Transit System operating in the South East Dorset conurbation.
This strategic view was confirmed as recently as September 2017. From the Daily Echo:
: Daily Echo
Cllr Philip Stanley-Watts asked cabinet member Cllr Mike Green, portfolio holder for transport, cleansing and waste, if a demonstration of a potential transport system would be supported.
Cllr Philip Broadhead, speaking in verbatim for Cllr Mike Green, said: “In fact the council already has within the adopted local traffic plan long term aspirations for such a system after 2026.
“The authorities will promote the future development of a rapid transit and develop proposals within the LTP3 period for a future Dorset rapid transit system operating in the south east Dorset conurbation.
"It's visualised this might run from Christchurch to Hamworthy using established train lines with on-street links in Bournemouth town centre, however in the current funding environment I think we have to be realistic.
"The set up costs would be very significant and it seems unlikely that government money would be forthcoming for such a project.
"Nevertheless, it remains an aspiration and an ambition and I hope that in future officers will look into opportunities as and when it looks like funding might become available.”
Cllr Philip Broadhead, speaking in verbatim for Cllr Mike Green, said: “In fact the council already has within the adopted local traffic plan long term aspirations for such a system after 2026.
“The authorities will promote the future development of a rapid transit and develop proposals within the LTP3 period for a future Dorset rapid transit system operating in the south east Dorset conurbation.
"It's visualised this might run from Christchurch to Hamworthy using established train lines with on-street links in Bournemouth town centre, however in the current funding environment I think we have to be realistic.
"The set up costs would be very significant and it seems unlikely that government money would be forthcoming for such a project.
"Nevertheless, it remains an aspiration and an ambition and I hope that in future officers will look into opportunities as and when it looks like funding might become available.”
The proposed Rapid Transit system, including the feasibility of the tram-train element/extensive use of the existing rail network, is described and assessed in detail in the 2012 South East Dorset Multi-Modal Transport Study (Pages 188-196) - https://www.dorsetforyou.gov.uk/roads-highways-maintenance/roads-and-pavements/documents/south-east-dorset-multi-modal-transport-study.pdf
grahame - What I would be interested to know is whether the source who informed your correspondent that "we will be getting a tram system" was imparting a genuine change of policy that would move the implementation of such a system into the short/medium term timeframe (presumably by removing the quoted funding constraints through the use of some of the significant savings envisaged by moving to a unitary system), or whether they were simply jumping the gun/living in hope.
There is certainly potential there in my view. There are already LTP commitments to work towards an integrated transport authority, Quality Bus Corridors, and the main bus operators (RATP and Go) are both well experienced in the kind of partnership working that could even facilitate successful Bus Franchising if so desired.
| Re: The City of PCB Posted by grahame at 15:00, 30th July 2026 | |
grahame - What I would be interested to know is whether the source who informed your correspondent that "we will be getting a tram system" was imparting a genuine change of policy that would move the implementation of such a system into the short/medium term timeframe (presumably by removing the quoted funding constraints through the use of some of the significant savings envisaged by moving to a unitary system), or whether they were simply jumping the gun/living in hope.
There is certainly potential there in my view. There are already LTP commitments to work towards an integrated transport authority, Quality Bus Corridors, and the main bus operators (RATP and Go) are both well experienced in the kind of partnership working that could even facilitate successful Bus Franchising if so desired.
There is certainly potential there in my view. There are already LTP commitments to work towards an integrated transport authority, Quality Bus Corridors, and the main bus operators (RATP and Go) are both well experienced in the kind of partnership working that could even facilitate successful Bus Franchising if so desired.
Taken me a long time to answer, Lee ... but from the Dorset Echo
Plan to move Dorset railway station called 'anti-motorist'
A 15-year plan with proposals to move a railway station, introduce trams and expand the cycling network is continuing the “anti-motorist biased agenda”.
That's according to Reform councillor Cameron Adams.
The local transport plan (LTP4) was consulted on between January and March 2024 so that the council could “understand the transport-related issues” the strategy would seek to address.
The plan includes proposals to reopen Hamworthy branch line as a freight route, relocate Poole train station to help regenerate the town centre, introduce trams across the BCP conurbation and make improvements to cycling networks and pedestrian routes.
During a debate on the strategy at a full council meeting on July 28, Councillor Margaret Phipps, who was a member of the working group for the local transport plan said: “For me it is not a transport plan it more resembles a cycling and climate plan.
“I really can’t see how this plan will benefit a majority of residents in BCP and businesses who have to by absolute necessity use a motorised vehicle to get around.”
Councillor Karen Rampton asked how a petition which had 2,000 signatures from a motorist group was considered.
Cllr Rampton said: “This is 2.000 residents who took the time to make representation to us about something they feel strongly about and it seems to me that was just dismissed.
“This transport plan barely mentions a car but for many residents the car is a lifeline, it is there choice and we shouldn’t remove that choice. ”
Councillor Stephen Bartlett said: “The document should be retitled to the local walking wheeling and cycling transport plan as it is trying to alter people behaviour.
“The impression I got was this is a paper that does not reflect public opinion.”
Councillor Cameron Adams said: “In the local transport plan strategy document it does mention motorists five times, with cars mentioned on a further 30 occasions.
“Cycling is mentioned 85 times and potholes one of the most frequently complained about issues is mentioned on one occasion which shows the priority that is given to them.
“The Lib Dems continuing to do this anti-motorist biased agenda is why so many of them are going to be joining Sir Keir in the job centre next May.”
Councillor Millie Earl said: “I don’t see it as something taking away from car drivers to give to cyclists this is about equity and rebalancing.
“Everyone should feel safe on our roads.”
BCP Council voted in favour of implementing the strategy 44:13 with four councillors abstaining.
A 15-year plan with proposals to move a railway station, introduce trams and expand the cycling network is continuing the “anti-motorist biased agenda”.
That's according to Reform councillor Cameron Adams.
The local transport plan (LTP4) was consulted on between January and March 2024 so that the council could “understand the transport-related issues” the strategy would seek to address.
The plan includes proposals to reopen Hamworthy branch line as a freight route, relocate Poole train station to help regenerate the town centre, introduce trams across the BCP conurbation and make improvements to cycling networks and pedestrian routes.
During a debate on the strategy at a full council meeting on July 28, Councillor Margaret Phipps, who was a member of the working group for the local transport plan said: “For me it is not a transport plan it more resembles a cycling and climate plan.
“I really can’t see how this plan will benefit a majority of residents in BCP and businesses who have to by absolute necessity use a motorised vehicle to get around.”
Councillor Karen Rampton asked how a petition which had 2,000 signatures from a motorist group was considered.
Cllr Rampton said: “This is 2.000 residents who took the time to make representation to us about something they feel strongly about and it seems to me that was just dismissed.
“This transport plan barely mentions a car but for many residents the car is a lifeline, it is there choice and we shouldn’t remove that choice. ”
Councillor Stephen Bartlett said: “The document should be retitled to the local walking wheeling and cycling transport plan as it is trying to alter people behaviour.
“The impression I got was this is a paper that does not reflect public opinion.”
Councillor Cameron Adams said: “In the local transport plan strategy document it does mention motorists five times, with cars mentioned on a further 30 occasions.
“Cycling is mentioned 85 times and potholes one of the most frequently complained about issues is mentioned on one occasion which shows the priority that is given to them.
“The Lib Dems continuing to do this anti-motorist biased agenda is why so many of them are going to be joining Sir Keir in the job centre next May.”
Councillor Millie Earl said: “I don’t see it as something taking away from car drivers to give to cyclists this is about equity and rebalancing.
“Everyone should feel safe on our roads.”
BCP Council voted in favour of implementing the strategy 44:13 with four councillors abstaining.
I have quoted more than I normally would there to give readers a real flavour. I note
* 77% of councillors voted in favour of the scheme
* I agree the absolute necessity of motorised vehicles to get around. There's more than just the private car, though - there are buses, proposed trams, trains, e-bykes, taxis and private hire options too where I live, and as I understand it the same offerings in Poole.
* From Wikipedia: """The Downs–Thomson paradox (named after Anthony Downs and John Michael Thomson), also known as the Pigou–Knight–Downs paradox (after Arthur Cecil Pigou and Frank Knight), states that the equilibrium speed of car traffic on a road network is determined by the average door-to-door speed of equivalent journeys taken by public transport or the next best alternative.""" and it follows, perhaps, that speeding up public transport is a darned good way to speed up car traffic too. At first this seems to be counter-intuitive, but if PCB can improve public transport and suck more people onto it, those people who remain attached to their cars will find they are faster too. I wonder if this has been explained to the 13 councillors objecting and / or the 2,000 residents who felt strongly enough to sign a petition (and I don't know the wording of that) stuck under their noses.
* By increasing the capacity of flows in and out of Poole, a boost to footfall should also be a boost to the local economy.
