Here we go again (or perhaps don't go, subject to facilities) 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jul/28/train-drivers-consider-strike-action-lack-of-toilets

 
They don't want to sit on train loos basically. elitist clap-trap....

 
There's also concern for provision for bus drivers, something I'd wondered about with services to Bath: even before the current road works, several services did not include the bus station, and with Manvers Street closed, most/all Faresaver services are turning round short too. Happy to hear more how the employer handles/doesn't handle this, especially given the weather. Warm work environments combined with restricting fluid intake has implications for health, both short and long term.

Mark

 
A bit away from the coffee shop area: I *think* this is the last known sighting of the provision for personal needs breaks for staff at a rather obscure railway junction on the line from... somewhere to who knows where. Google streetview link.

Mark

https://maps.app.goo.gl/tpFZjTRqJnagqttK6

 

Sort of occurred to me - can they not use the loos on the train when they stop at a station, or indeed the loos at a station itself?

I also feel for bus drivers though, a different set of circumstances altogether without either of those options, I think it's one of the most undervalued and underpaid jobs there is, especially when compared to train drivers.

 

The issue with that could be if there's pressure on time. Sods law leans towards the train loo turning out to be the UK's most occupied toilet / is out of order / the type of train is provided with only one loo etc.

Mark

 


I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here.  Staff do use toilets on the train and at stations where available, and if it's their recognised PNB (Physical Needs Break) then they will almost certainly have access to staff toilets of some sort.

I see the article TG linked to as basically ASLEF saying that a lot of companies agreed to the Welfare Facilities Charter which promised action by late this year, but in some cases very little improvement has been made, so they need to buck their ideas up.  More detail here:  https://aslef.org.uk/news/aslef-win-train-drivers-will-finally-have-access-toilets-work

The issue largely applies to freight train drivers who don't have access to a toilet on the train - or perhaps I'm wrong and ChrisB can let me know where to find the train loo on a freight train? - and may work long periods where there is simply no access to a proper toilet.  But there are also some passenger operators that could make improvements.

The Guardian article TG linked to then goes on to rather randomly quote a couple of examples of completely unrelated industrial action on the railways, before rightly drawing attention to the similar issues that bus, coach and lorry drivers face as well.

 

So true.
Little provision for bus drivers, and no encouragement from management to do anything about it!
Generally runs of  up to 5 and a half hours before a 'meal break'. 5 and a half hours is the legal maximum, so our duties were timed for between 5 and 5 hours thirty!
Legally, if you were late, you must not drive further.  Try telling your passengers in the middle of nowhere you are stopping for a 15 minute break!
The problem was you arrived at your half way/return point very late (even more so in summer time), and invariably a large queue of passengers waiting for you. So, keep it in, load up passengers and return.
The quality of toilet provision provided varied between a well used portaloo and OK'ish........

 
Reminded me of when I took over a bus from another driver and he was very clear about not switching off the engine as it wouldn't restart. The call of nature came about 2 hours into a 3h30 run where the only option was to use Tesco's facilities (it shouldn't really be up to other companies to provide facilities without being compensated, but that's another matter). I couldn't go inside the supermarket with the engine running so had no choice but to risk switching it off.

Deed quickly done, it took me 5 attempts to restart the engine, but fortunately it did and got a cheer from those on board when we got away only about a minute late.

Levity aside, this thread also made me think of the occasion when a Southern driver was hit in West Worthing Middle Siding having exited the cab, potentially for a PNB; RAIB report: https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/report-02-slash-2023-train-driver-struck-by-a-train-near-west-worthing-middle-siding

Lack of PNBs have also been cited in SPAD incidents in the past, so companies should take toilet provision (more) seriously and make sure adequate facilities are available.

 
Personal Need Breaks for bus drivers - reminds me of just how joined up our "Information at the Station" project is, including a route end at Melksham Station with a layover while the train arrives and departs, and with a layover long enough for connections to still make even if there are delays of a handful of minutes.

Plan is to provide a public loo ... loo already there ... should be up and running from day 1.

 
Ha. forgotten about that aspect.
Think we certainly one (maybe two) vehicles that were not to be switched off whilst in service.
Left running for handovers and PNB!
Never stolen.  Mind you, who would want to steal a bus.....
There was a start (and another for stop) button in the engine bay, but we, as drivers, were told never to go into the engine bay. H&S.  Engineers trained in there, drivers not trained.
A few vehicles we had to start from the back mind.
We also on occasions had to top up the water lever (again, untrained).

 

It has been done ... a story I heard ...

 
Does anyone know of any research into the relationship between driving ability and the need to go to the loo? Apocryphal evidence suggests that there is a dependence between the two.

Mark

 

When the municipal bus depot was in Reading town centre there was a particular set of traffic lights that was frequently the victim of a collision with a stolen bus.  It was at the first left turn after the depot.  

Having driven a bus you get used to turning points and using mirrors.  Those unused to larger vehicles and possibly impaired due to alcohol managed right turns ok, but frequently cut the corner on the left and took the lights with them.  

 
Ah, there is, from 2010, but it's not freely available. The impairment takes people to the equivalent of the drink-driving limit or '24 hours of sleep deprivation'. Article in the Scottish Daily Record newspaper. That makes this a safety issue.

Mark

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/science-technology/researchers-claim-driving-while-needing-to-pee-1083148

Lewis, M. S., Snyder, P. J., Pietrzak, R. H., Darby, D., Feldman, R. A., & Maruff, P. (2010). The effect of acute increase in urge to void on cognitive function in healthy adults. Neurourology and Urodynamics, 30(2), 183–187. https://doi.org/10.1002/nau.20963